Goldsworthy discusses the development of a book that is a series of opening, of moments, rather than a narrative arch. This fragmented structure is taken in part from the music of Schubert and the way in which a piece may start in minor only to end in major. Asked about what makes a successful music piece:
Goldsworthy: I wonder whether the mark of a really successful piece of art is that it allows you to dismantle the critical apparatus. You are no longer thinking, how did they do this? You’re just submitting to the experience and then subsequently you might go back to it and look for the mechanics. But I guess I’m just like everybody else, I’m yearning for those moments of transport, of forgetting all the stuff you might bring to your own practice, when you can see the cogs, when you can see the process. There are some very celebrated writers who I still feel when I see their prose that there very much the product of maybe a creative writing program or maybe a whole lot of planning, there is a quality of painting by numbers. I can see the work, and I don’t like seeing the work. But there are some pieces of writing that are just driven and utterly disarm you and take you by surprise. And subsequently you go back and think, how did they do that? Can I do that? Could I learn something from that? But ideally you wish to surrender to the experience in the reading of it, I think.
Ford: Yes, it’s like there’s actors you see them acting, and it can can be thrilling, but then there are actors you don’t notice the acting at all. You just believe.
Goldsworthy: I think that’s the ultimate, the invisibility of technique is probably what we all aspire to on some level. My teacher, Eleonora Sivan, used to say, “A compliment is not that it looks difficult, a compliment is that it looks easy.”
Sivan’s comment reminds me of something from Chilly Gonzales:
The rest of the world experiences music. They don’t care if I’m technically good, they just want to feel something.
In the second half of the podcast, Ford speaks with O’Connell about his book Bowie’s Books: The Hundred Literary Heroes who Changed his Life. He also recounts how David Bowie used to take a library on tour. For example, while filming The Man Who Fell to Earth he had a collection of 1500 books.